I was wondering why people say dragon ball gt is not canon. I think it should exist counted as canon (slight db bias).
the just things considered canon in the DB universe are things that Akira Toriyama wrote....everything else like the movies and GT are considered noncanon
Some movies such as Fusion Reborn or Battle of the Gods are catechism, however.
Some movies such equally Fusion Reborn or Battle of the Gods are canon, notwithstanding.
why Fusion Reborn?
Too many plot holes, and Toriyama wasn't directly involved with it in the manner of DB, DBZ, and BoG.
@mysticmedivh said:
Some movies such as Fusion Reborn or Battle of the Gods are catechism, still.
why Fusion Reborn?
I say this because this is where Gogeta first debuts, and after the moving picture nosotros meet Gogeta in the anime.
Considering GT contradicts the original manga.
@danhimself said:
@mysticmedivh said:
Some movies such equally Fusion Reborn or Boxing of the Gods are canon, however.
why Fusion Reborn?
I say this because this is where Gogeta starting time debuts, and after the movie nosotros see Gogeta in the anime.
in GT which isn't catechism...I suppose nosotros could say that it's catechism because of the fusion dance
I actually but ever considered Bojack to be canon because it has the least amount of contradictions and can hands fit into a time period of the show....then there's Battle of the Gods which there'due south no disputing that information technology's canon
Because a lot of fans didn't like it lol
Somebody correct me if I am wrong but didn't Akira Toriyama himself depict this? ^
one. Isnt part of the Manga
2. Toriyama did had to do with it, but notwithstanding he doesnt count it.
iii. Catechism Discontinuity, Battle of the Gods and other things show you it didnt happened.
Information technology technically IS canon, as Toriyama not only approved of its creation, simply he really DID take a minor office in it's evolution.
People just say information technology'due south non-catechism considering they don't like it.
Which is fine with me, because virtually of the time (or should I say, back in the day) the OP used to specify whether we were allowed to use GT feats when using them in battles.
And then really it just comes downward to whether y'all as an individual consider it canon or non-canon, for your own personal categorization.
Jmarshmallow
@mysticmedivh said:
@danhimself said:
@mysticmedivh said:
Some movies such equally Fusion Reborn or Battle of the Gods are canon, however.
why Fusion Reborn?
I say this considering this is where Gogeta get-go debuts, and after the motion picture we see Gogeta in the anime.
in GT which isn't canon...I suppose we could say that it's canon because of the fusion dance
I really only ever considered Bojack to be canon because it has the least amount of contradictions and can easily fit into a time catamenia of the show....then at that place's Battle of the Gods which there'southward no disputing that information technology'south canon
So I gauge nosotros can call Fusion Reborn semi-catechism.
The OVA's and specials (e.grand.Bardock, Father of Goku, Yo! Son Goku and His Friends Return) are canon as well.
I recollect Cooler's Revenge can also fit in the timeline without plot holes also.
Personally I recall it should be because if we look at western comics they modify writers all the fourth dimension ( i mean look at superman the original writers got screwed out the ass past dc comics and pretty much had nothing to practice with most of the story only its notwithstanding considered catechism).
@mysticmedivh: Fusion reborn is non canon. At all.
Beata
Personally I think it should be because if we expect at western comics they alter writers all the time ( i mean look at superman the original writers got screwed out the donkey by dc comics and pretty much had nothing to practise with most of the story simply its still considered catechism).
This was something I mentioned in an onetime thread I fabricated. The original creators of Superman, Wonder Woman, and Batman are all dead, only plenty of stories involving them (that were written by other people) are however considered canon.
Tv Tropes about Canon Discontinuity.
Pilaf and his coiffure be children again as a consequence of a poorly worded wish on the Dragon Balls. Akira Toriyama himself has chosen GT a "wonderful side story", which is a polite way of proverb it didn't happen. This was long earlier Battle of Godswas even imagined.
Not only this Dragon Brawl Online besides shows GT didnt happened.
And yep Toriyama called GT a side story.
GT isnt catechism anymore.
If you are able, along with me, to relish watching the original Dragon Brawl's grand side-story Dragon Brawl GT, you will exist pleased.
Toriyama said this.
Personally I recollect it should be because if we look at western comics they change writers all the fourth dimension ( i mean expect at superman the original writers got screwed out the ass by dc comics and pretty much had nothing to do with virtually of the story simply its still considered catechism).
Entirely different situations
Technically its not catechism but I like to think information technology is. Still my to the lowest degree favorite Dragon ball serial.
Canon means it'due south either from the original manga, or if it isn't, it has to be stated by the original creator himself/current owner "this is canon", which is something Toriyama did for Battle of Gods, just NOT for GT because although he oversaw the production, he doesn't really similar it that much. The DB/Z movies aren't canon either (exception of BoG).
On the other manus, something similar Dragon Brawl Online has its Ain canon, so it's a separate thing while still beingness "legit".
I notwithstanding think the whole "canon/non-catechism" thing is annoying to hear though.
@blade_r: he didn't design ssj4 if that'southward where you're gettin that that was just an attempt to describe it equally a souvenir to those who bought the dragon box prepare years after gt ended in that same set he basically states he didn't design it and gt is a side story
Anyways gt has always been non canon because it directly contradicts the manga uncomplicated as that and the ridiculous haxes
@jmarshmallow: or mayhap because it straight contradicts the manga?
And itself
@zaied: Except that Toriyama had the verbal same amount of involvement in GT as he did in BoG and the anime adaptations of DB, and DBZ.
But this topic has been washed to death, and I'm really tired of repeating myself.
@jaken7: no he didn't
For gt he only did initial cast designs an come up up with te name
For BoG he did designs and rewrote the entire story
@mysticmedivh: Equally far as Cooler's Revenge goes, take a look at how Gohan looked when Goku returned to Earth and Trunks killed Frieza and King Cold, and then look at how he looked in Libation'due south Revenge. There is obviously a continuity error there.
Plus, SSJ Goku struggled really hard against full powered Frieza, but admittedly stomped Libation who is more powerful and has 1 whole extra transformation than Frieza. I could argue that he was stronger when he fought Libation because of the Zenkai heave he got from his well-nigh-expiry on Namek, but a Zenkai boost shouldn't account for that much of a ability increment.
@jaken7: I don't see why not
Goku got a 33x zenkai on namek afterwards ginyu, and goku is implied to have gotten a zenkai from cooler nearly killing him with the heart beam, and remember movie five goku is supposed to be yardrat goku (cooler also states in the original japanese version base/maybe kaioken 10 goku > freeza)
The movie is basically a parallel to goku vs freeza it's painfully obvious to meet the similarities between certain movies and certain arcs
And freeza "winning" the fight was seriously only anime
@dbzk1999: How does it contradict the manga?...
Jmarshmallow
@jmarshmallow: in the manga it's established when yous die yous don't keep you body unless you've earned it basically (piccolo even says that vegeta can't keep his body in the afterlife and vegeta confirms it later on) afterwards on in filler and in gt, both freeza and prison cell accept bodies in hell
@dbzk1999 said:
@jaken7: no he didn't
For gt he only did initial cast designs an come up with te proper name
For BoG he did designs and rewrote the entire story
According to the official wiki:
"Akira Toriyama is credited as author in the ending credits of Dragon Brawl GT; he oversaw the series' production, this was the aforementioned procedure that was used during the production of the anime series Dragon Ball and Dragon Brawl Z. He drew a rough design for the GT logo, he designed the GT appearance of the series chief cast, and he designed the appearances of Giru and the GT spaceship used in the Blackness Star Dragon Ball Saga. He also drew at least three color pictures of Goku, Pan, and Trunks adventuring on various planets (Monmaasu, Rudeeze, and an area in Hell).
Super Saiyan 4 Goku, drawn by Akira Toriyama
Toriyama seems to have positive feelings towards his works' continuation, as he drew his own version of Super Saiyan 4 Goku (which was originally designed by Katsuyoshi Nakatsuru) exclusively for the Dragon Box GT. Characters and events from GT have also been included in more recent Dragon Ball video games.
Despite these facts, some fans do not consider GT to exist an official installment of the series, near often citing that the series was not direct adapted from a Toriyama manga. Like Dragon Ball and Dragon Ball Z, GT contains minor elements inconsistent with prior anime events. However, GT has the fewest inconsistencies of all three anime series, making it difficult to burden the few that be as a reason for the series to be prepare aside every bit unofficial."
I would concede that he probably had more interest in BoG. But his involvement in DB and Z was parallel to his involvement in GT.
@dbzk1999 said:
@jaken7: I don't see why not
Goku got a 33x zenkai on namek and remember movie 5 goku is supposed to be yardrat goku (cooler likewise states in the original japanese version base of operations/perchance kaioken 10 goku > freeza)
And freeza "winning" the fight was seriously only anime
Where was it stated he got a 33x Zenkai heave? And I'chiliad gonna demand links for that alleged Libation quote.
And still, none of that explains the discrepancy with Gohan's character blueprint.
@mysticmedivh said:
@jaken7 said:
@mysticmedivh: As far every bit Cooler's Revenge goes, take a expect at how Gohan looked when Goku returned to Earth and Trunks killed Frieza and King Cold, and then await at how he looked in Libation's Revenge. There is obviously a continuity error at that place.
Plus, SSJ Goku struggled really hard against full powered Frieza, but absolutely stomped Cooler who is more than powerful and has 1 whole extra transformation than Frieza. One could argue that he was stronger when he fought Cooler because of the Zenkai boost he got from his near-death on Namek, but a Zenkai boost shouldn't account for that much of a power increase.
Similar I said, I can see Cooler'due south Revenge filling in the timeline (after Namek, before Androids). Though it's definitely not catechism.
It but doesn't fit very well due to the inconsistencies.
@jmarshmallow: in the manga it'south established when you lot die yous don't continue you body unless you've earned it basically (piccolo fifty-fifty says that vegeta tin't continue his torso in the afterlife and vegeta confirms it afterward) later on in filler and in gt, both freeza and cell have bodies in hell
That doesn't actually seem like a contradiction...I mean they went to hell for Pete's sake.
Jmarshmallow
@jmarshmallow: that's the bespeak though when y'all dice your spirit is basically apple-pie you lot don't continue your body this especially happens to villains (child buu is a prime example of how it works, what happened to kid buu is basically what happens to all other villains except with buu it was quicker cuz let'southward be honest you don't want him in other world
@jaken7: information technology's basically stated when goku heals afterward fighting ginyu he goes from beingness most 90000 to over two million possibly reachin iii million (that's what the Daiz seems to support as well)
Just gonna say movie 5 was released around the fourth dimension goku and freeza were battling in the anime that's why goku needed rage to access ssj and gohan has his namek design
This is a review by someone who compared both the japanese dub and the English dub of coolers revenge it goes off of basically everything including what was said in certain scenes
Libation- "Hmph, you do every bit well as I expected. Enough to have defeated my blood brother. However, the real hell begins at present! Once you witness this hell, I will show yous no mercy, no matter how you scream! Not until I've torn you lot to bits.....In one case more than."
Goku- "?"
Cooler- "I am able to transform myself one more time than my blood brother."
Goku- "What?"
Cooler- "You lot should consider this an accolade. You will be the commencement to see my ultimate transformation, and the last!"
Goku- ("Incredible... his ki is even greater than Freeza'due south!)"
Cooler- "So, shall we brainstorm?"
(dub dialogue)
Libation- "Well, well, swell! Rather impressive actually! Frieza! Yes! I tin see how he would have trouble with you! My brother was a pest! I would have killed him myself sooner or later! He was e'er trying to beat out me! Trying to prove that he was the best! And he definitely had the edge! Mm! But then it happened. I transformed! As you know, I'm in the 3rd transformation country, just I found a quaternary across it. Beginning you volition see, so you will die!"
Goku- "Whoa, human! He's huge!"
Cooler- "Yes! Fourth dimension to dice."
Equally you tin see that person takes it pretty seriously
@jmarshmallow: that's the point though when y'all die your spirit is basically cleansed you don't keep your body this particularly happens to villains (kid buu is a prime example of how it works, what happened to child buu is basically what happens to all other villains except with buu it was quicker cuz permit'due south be honest you don't desire him in other world
In the DBZ anime, the other villains lookout Buu and comment on how powerful he is.
So, if anything, GT just kept to that same pattern.
Jmarshmallow
It'due south obviously canon, as it's part of DBZ which is entirely canon. So it may not exist catechism to the manga, only information technology's canon to the anime.
Jmarshmallow
@jmarshmallow: yes I know I said that in a previous post to jake
@jaken7: it's basically stated when goku heals after fighting ginyu he goes from being about 90000 to over 2 1000000 possibly reachin 3 million (that'due south what the Daiz seems to back up equally well)
So? The Ginyu Zenkai heave was probably the most significant, as for all intents and purposes, he pretty much did die. He was out of commission for the unabridged rest of the saga up until Frieza reached his final transformation. There is no possible style that Goku got the same Zenkai boost after Namek. Goku'south offical PL when fighting Frieza as a SSJ was 150 one thousand thousand. If he got the same Zenkai boost (33x as you stated) from Namek, than the SSJ Goku during Cooler's Revenge would take a PL of nearly 5 billion (4,950,000,000 to be exact). He could practically solo the unabridged rest of the series as a mere SSJ 1 if that were the example.
And again, you still oasis't addressed the Gohan issue. Am I meant to believe that directly after Goku arrived back on Globe he got his pilus cutting like he had it on Namek, and grew his tail dorsum out, merely to then cut his tail off once again and grow his hair back out identical to how it was when Goku came back to Earth simply prior to the arrival of the Androids?
This is a review by someone who compared both the japanese dub and the English dub of coolers revenge information technology goes off of basically everything including what was said in sure scenes
Libation- "Hmph, yous do as well equally I expected. Enough to have defeated my blood brother. Notwithstanding, the real hell begins at present! Once you lot witness this hell, I will prove you no mercy, no affair how you scream! Not until I've torn you to $.25.....Ane fourth dimension more."
Goku- "?"
Cooler- "I am able to transform myself 1 more time than my blood brother."
Goku- "What?"
Cooler- "You lot should consider this an honor. You volition exist the offset to come across my ultimate transformation, and the last!"
Goku- ("Incredible... his ki is fifty-fifty greater than Freeza's!)"
Cooler- "So, shall nosotros brainstorm?"
(dub dialogue)
Cooler- "Well, well, dandy! Rather impressive actually! Frieza! Yes! I tin can see how he would have trouble with you lot! My brother was a pest! I would have killed him myself sooner or afterwards! He was always trying to beat me! Trying to show that he was the all-time! And he definitely had the border! Mm! But then it happened. I transformed! As you know, I'g in the third transformation state, merely I establish a 4th beyond it. First you volition meet, then you will die!"
Goku- "Whoa, man! He's huge!"
Cooler- "Yes! Time to die."
Equally you lot can run across that person takes it pretty seriously
I'm deplorable? Where in there does it state that base of operations Goku in Cooler'due south Revenge was 10x stronger than Frieza?
@jaken7: I didn't say goku was 10x stronger I said kaioken 10x goku was stronger than freeza
Derp
What do you lot mean I didn't accost the issue?
I already told yous moving-picture show 5 came out while goku and freeza were still fighting
I didn't say goku got a 33x zenkai fighting cooler I said why is it hard to believe goku got a big zenkai when te same affair happened on namek (I'm not saying it's to the same degree)
Cuz it sucked
@dbzk1999: Did you just say that Cooler's Revenge takes place while Goku was fighting Frieza on Namek?
No, it really didn't.
@dbzk1999: Wasn't motion picture 5 more of a "what if"? Information technology'due south later on the fight with Frieza yet he can't go Super Saiyan at will or use instant transmission.
@dbzk1999: Wasn't movie 5 more of a "what if"? It'south later on the fight with Frieza yet he can't become Super Saiyan at will or use instant transmission.
He actually did utilize instant manual though.
@jaken7: what? NO! I'm saying that the time movie 5 was released, goku and freeza were still fighting in the anime await at the release dates
@jaken7: what? NO! I'm saying that the time picture 5 was released, goku and freeza were still fighting in the anime look at the release dates
...ok? So what does that have to practise with anything that nosotros're discussing? Like what signal of yours does that prove? Lol
@jaken7: OMG! Y'all just said "you haven't addressed the gohan consequence" that'due south the reason why gohan looks similar that
@jaken7: OMG! You lot just said "you haven't addressed the gohan issue" that'south the reason why gohan looks like that
So you acknowledge that it's a plot pigsty then? The real life explanation you gave makes sense, equally Gohan's design for the Android saga near probable hadn't been completed still. But as far as in-universe canon goes, it still doesn't brand sense.
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